Comments on: Histories of Feelings

By: Ballet of Frost - The Run of Play

Ballet of Frost - The Run of Play — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:37:22 +0000

[...] Sergio Ramos is quietly becoming the most dangerous non-Brazilian right back in the world. As Elliott said in a comment, I wish they’d set one of their holding midfielders free, but the build-up [...]

By: Sjors

Sjors — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:35:21 +0000

@Brian Phillips I understand where you’re coming from, but this really was the message that came across in combination with the David Winner article you linked to: the 1974 defeat made them favour style over winning, and now that they claim to want to win more than anything, all football fans must root for them to lose (the title wasn’t “why all football fans should root for Spain”) .
I’m not as big an expert as you, and I’m too young to remember 1974 and only vaguely remember my dad crying in 1978 over something I didn’t quite understand the significance of at the time. I think I understand it now. I do remember all our subsequent world cups pretty well, and the only major difference in style I can see is that we don’t have 3 world class strikers in form this time. I also regret that our opponents didn’t open up for nice 6 – 1 defeats this tournament, but I don’t see why that should make all football fans root for another uneventful 1 – 0 victory for Spain either.

By: Elliott

Elliott — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:42:38 +0000

@Brian Phillips I share with Brian’s disdain for the modern pollution of the 74 Dutch footballing ideal. On the one hand, the overlapping and attacking wingback has become a staple of modern football – we take Maicon and Roberto Carlos for granted. On the other hand, the deployment of 2 or 3 holding midfielders who contribute little offensively to cover for attacking fullbacks is a modern development and, from the viewer’s perspective, is a total buzzkill.

One has to admit, though, that Spain does deploy both Busquest and Xabi Alonso, not exactly firecrackers full of offensive forays. I yearn for the Marcos Senna days, when he defended by himself and Iniesta and Xavi had a license to ill…

By: Brian Phillips

Brian Phillips — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:59:45 +0000

@Sjors I’m writing the positive post about Spain’s style for RoP even as we speak. But my case for Spain really does start with the Netherlands, because I would so easily have cheered for them instead had things gone a little differently.

The last thing I wanted was for my Slate piece to seem nasty, but honestly, you’re misrepresenting it. I never said that I was entertained by the ’74 team because it lost, I said I was entertained by the ’74 team because it played mesmerizing football. And I never said I wanted the current team to be “put back in their place,” I simply said that their style doesn’t quite do it for me and tried to explain why I think that matters. In general, Holland is one of my favorite teams in the world, and that hasn’t changed. I’m just going with Spain in this match for the reasons I listed.

By: Sjors

Sjors — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:21:33 +0000

@Brian Phillips Hmm, to me your Slate article didn't read like an explanation why you are rooting for Spain - Spain was barely mentioned. You implied that Holland needs another defeat to put them back in their place, since the defeat of 1974 had made them so entertaining to you. Rooting for Spain because you like their style is great, but this article just came across as nasty, sorry.

By: Brian Phillips

Brian Phillips — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:32:23 +0000

@Elliott Oh, I was just kidding around with Kuyt. I appreciate what he does for the Dutch. I might change your breakdown to 15% footballer, 5% athlete, 110% guy who is willing to run straight through the advertising hoardings if it gives his team any advantage whatsoever. In fact, when he finishes a game without running through the advertising hoardings, he always looks a little disappointed.

By: eriol11

eriol11 — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:47:55 +0000

@Elliott Exactly. Can you imagine what the 70's Holland team would be like if they had someone as unselfish as Kuyt? He wins balls, runs, stretches the field, and will only rest when everything is done. I want to see Elia tomorrow. These next Euros are going to be fun.

By: Elliott

Elliott — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:33:03 +0000

I didn’t want to get drowned by the Yahoo commentators, but why are you so opposed to Dirk Kuyt being the physical and aesthetic embodiment of the beautiful game?

I really don’t want this to retrogress to one of those religious debates about whether he’s the actual flesh incarnate, a mere prophet, etc., but you have to admit he is 95% footballer and maybe 5% athlete.