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	<title>Comments on: Sail On, Sailor b/w Typical Boys</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/</link>
	<description>Attacking Football</description>
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		<title>By: Sunday Selection #3 &#171; Across The Synapse</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-10950</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday Selection #3 &#171; Across The Synapse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 18:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-10950</guid>
		<description>[...] The series on Barcelona vs Chelsea in the Champions League in 2009 (The first game, The aftermath, The second game, The ensuing controversy) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The series on Barcelona vs Chelsea in the Champions League in 2009 (The first game, The aftermath, The second game, The ensuing controversy) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Technology and Justice - The Run of Play</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-8970</link>
		<dc:creator>Technology and Justice - The Run of Play</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-8970</guid>
		<description>[...] In any case, machines would be unbiased, consistent (even if consistency is often at odds with common sense), precise, and acute. And if fairness is the most important consideration in sports, why on earth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In any case, machines would be unbiased, consistent (even if consistency is often at odds with common sense), precise, and acute. And if fairness is the most important consideration in sports, why on earth [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sports and the truth in being wrong &#171;</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-8030</link>
		<dc:creator>Sports and the truth in being wrong &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-8030</guid>
		<description>[...] are as much a part of the game as bats, bases, and gloves are.  As Fredorrarci points out in this post, justice works differently in sports, just another piece on the board rather than the over-arching [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are as much a part of the game as bats, bases, and gloves are.  As Fredorrarci points out in this post, justice works differently in sports, just another piece on the board rather than the over-arching [...]</p>
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		<title>By: REFEREES: GODS PLAYING THE FOOLS OR FOOLS PLAYING THE GODS? &#124; Footsmoke</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5897</link>
		<dc:creator>REFEREES: GODS PLAYING THE FOOLS OR FOOLS PLAYING THE GODS? &#124; Footsmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 16:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5897</guid>
		<description>[...] or the sanctity of the game in which they invest so much. As Fredorrarci made me believe in a recent post on The Run of Play, justice loses its clarity in an environment that encourages players to do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] or the sanctity of the game in which they invest so much. As Fredorrarci made me believe in a recent post on The Run of Play, justice loses its clarity in an environment that encourages players to do [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fredorrarci</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5696</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredorrarci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 21:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5696</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I read that Barnes piece at the time. (Though, as I think I&#039;ve said before, his sports columns could seriously do with an RSS feed, because I keep missing them; ditto &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wizznutzz.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Wizznutzz&lt;/a&gt;.) There are some good points in it: likening the typical footballer&#039;s attitude to the ref to that of a schoolboy to his teacher; that footballers&#039; huge wages have altered their relationship with officials; and the last paragraph:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;And, meanwhile, referees enjoy the mystique of their office far too much to want to change anything. Football&#039;s culture is structured to provide an unending series of confrontations between referees and players, between authority and subject, and it is a situation that is nurtured and maintained by the vanities and fallibilities of both sides. There is an option for sanity, but football prefers madness.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t quite agree with what he says about rugby: &lt;i&gt;&quot;...the players and officials are not on opposing sides, they are both knowingly trying to create a contest, a spectacle, sport.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; Though there&#039;s not as much bitching about officials as there is in football, it&#039;s still there, especially if the referee is from the opposite hemisphere. It&#039;s true that players often appear remarkably forgiving of cheating or violent conduct committed against them. But I reckon it&#039;s as much because it&#039;s politic to do so. I think of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlJ8K7XjQc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&#039;Hand of Back&#039;&lt;/a&gt;*: the reaction from Munster&#039;s players was &quot;Sure I&#039;d have done the same meself&quot;. Just like football, except the players are more open about it.

Anyway, how committed are top-class athletes in any sport to &quot;creating a spectacle&quot;, really? Anyone watching the Six Nations recently -- or your average Premier League game, come to that -- would doubt that idea.

* I&#039;m a peaceable kind of guy, but Austin Healey needs a slap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I read that Barnes piece at the time. (Though, as I think I&#8217;ve said before, his sports columns could seriously do with an RSS feed, because I keep missing them; ditto <a href="http://www.wizznutzz.com/" rel="nofollow">The Wizznutzz</a>.) There are some good points in it: likening the typical footballer&#8217;s attitude to the ref to that of a schoolboy to his teacher; that footballers&#8217; huge wages have altered their relationship with officials; and the last paragraph:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;And, meanwhile, referees enjoy the mystique of their office far too much to want to change anything. Football&#8217;s culture is structured to provide an unending series of confrontations between referees and players, between authority and subject, and it is a situation that is nurtured and maintained by the vanities and fallibilities of both sides. There is an option for sanity, but football prefers madness.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t quite agree with what he says about rugby: <i>&#8220;&#8230;the players and officials are not on opposing sides, they are both knowingly trying to create a contest, a spectacle, sport.&#8221;</i> Though there&#8217;s not as much bitching about officials as there is in football, it&#8217;s still there, especially if the referee is from the opposite hemisphere. It&#8217;s true that players often appear remarkably forgiving of cheating or violent conduct committed against them. But I reckon it&#8217;s as much because it&#8217;s politic to do so. I think of the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlJ8K7XjQc" rel="nofollow">&#8216;Hand of Back&#8217;</a>*: the reaction from Munster&#8217;s players was &#8220;Sure I&#8217;d have done the same meself&#8221;. Just like football, except the players are more open about it.</p>
<p>Anyway, how committed are top-class athletes in any sport to &#8220;creating a spectacle&#8221;, really? Anyone watching the Six Nations recently &#8212; or your average Premier League game, come to that &#8212; would doubt that idea.</p>
<p>* I&#8217;m a peaceable kind of guy, but Austin Healey needs a slap.</p>
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		<title>By: Calcio&#8217;s finest take a lesson in entertainment &#171; Scissors Kick</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5695</link>
		<dc:creator>Calcio&#8217;s finest take a lesson in entertainment &#171; Scissors Kick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5695</guid>
		<description>[...] Sail On, Sailor b/w Typical Boys (The Run of Play) &#8220;Maybe it&#8217;s just natural to feel sympathy for these slighted creatures. To see the anguish on their faces as the referee penalises them for reasons they can&#8217;t fathom; to see the disbelief register on their tormented visages as a penalty appeal is dismissed; to see one slam the turf with open palms, enraged that the contact that sent him to the floor was not deemed sufficient for censure…Fair breaks your heart, doesn&#8217;t it?&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sail On, Sailor b/w Typical Boys (The Run of Play) &#8220;Maybe it&#8217;s just natural to feel sympathy for these slighted creatures. To see the anguish on their faces as the referee penalises them for reasons they can&#8217;t fathom; to see the disbelief register on their tormented visages as a penalty appeal is dismissed; to see one slam the turf with open palms, enraged that the contact that sent him to the floor was not deemed sufficient for censure…Fair breaks your heart, doesn&#8217;t it?&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5685</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5685</guid>
		<description>Fair points!

Of course, with 22 players trying to subvert the rules (or at least push them to their very limits) it becomes far harder to implement the laws correctly - it&#039;s something of a distraction. 

But while the players&#039; motives may involve getting one over a referee, the referee&#039;s motives are in theory purer.

On a less philosophical level, I think the whole antipathy towards referees would be fixed if backchat, arguing, threatening, diving, and all its cousins were actually punished, be it in the moment or retrospectively. If the referee has only limited power to punish such infractions, what incentive is there for a player to stop trying it? If there consistent and meaningful bans for any such behaviour, you&#039;d see several red cards in the first couple of weeks, and then managers might start instructing players to be a little more mindful of behaving themselves.

There was an interesting article on this by Simon Barnes, too, which you&#039;ve probably come across already, but if not:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/simon_barnes/article6244418.ece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair points!</p>
<p>Of course, with 22 players trying to subvert the rules (or at least push them to their very limits) it becomes far harder to implement the laws correctly &#8211; it&#8217;s something of a distraction. </p>
<p>But while the players&#8217; motives may involve getting one over a referee, the referee&#8217;s motives are in theory purer.</p>
<p>On a less philosophical level, I think the whole antipathy towards referees would be fixed if backchat, arguing, threatening, diving, and all its cousins were actually punished, be it in the moment or retrospectively. If the referee has only limited power to punish such infractions, what incentive is there for a player to stop trying it? If there consistent and meaningful bans for any such behaviour, you&#8217;d see several red cards in the first couple of weeks, and then managers might start instructing players to be a little more mindful of behaving themselves.</p>
<p>There was an interesting article on this by Simon Barnes, too, which you&#8217;ve probably come across already, but if not:<br />
<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/simon_barnes/article6244418.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/simon_barnes/article6244418.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fredorrarci</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5679</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredorrarci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5679</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, Mark, and I should have acknowledged that. That said, it&#039;s acknowledged plenty already -- as a reflex, dozens of times a week -- and  I was trying to look at it from a different angle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, Mark, and I should have acknowledged that. That said, it&#8217;s acknowledged plenty already &#8212; as a reflex, dozens of times a week &#8212; and  I was trying to look at it from a different angle.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A.</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5671</link>
		<dc:creator>A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 01:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5671</guid>
		<description>Happens on a weekly basis in South America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happens on a weekly basis in South America.</p>
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		<title>By: KingSnake</title>
		<link>http://www.runofplay.com/2009/05/14/sail-on-sailor-bw-typical-boys/#comment-5666</link>
		<dc:creator>KingSnake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 18:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.runofplay.com/?p=9521#comment-5666</guid>
		<description>I live for the day some &quot;developmentally arrested millionaire&quot; (great term!) or even any other garden variety player, soccer mom, coach dad, or otherwise, gets all up in a referee&#039;s s**t, and the referee says to himself, &quot;screw this&quot; and puts that developmentally arrested millionaire in world of hurt, going all Bruce Lee on their a**. 

Hey, don&#039;t dish it if you can&#039;t take it ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live for the day some &#8220;developmentally arrested millionaire&#8221; (great term!) or even any other garden variety player, soccer mom, coach dad, or otherwise, gets all up in a referee&#8217;s s**t, and the referee says to himself, &#8220;screw this&#8221; and puts that developmentally arrested millionaire in world of hurt, going all Bruce Lee on their a**. </p>
<p>Hey, don&#8217;t dish it if you can&#8217;t take it &#8230;</p>
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