No. No way. Bayern-Sporting was a generic mismatch, a case of a storied club from a major league playing a nationally prominent regional side that was never going to be competitive.
Liverpool-Madrid was a matchup of two of the most successful clubs in the history of the world. And one of those clubs came down like the flame of the almighty while the other one wore sackcloth and wailed. This was a William Blake painting. Don't try to make into a run-of-the-mill blowout.
There is a huge difference between this game and the Bayern game. Sporting is a decent team, above average, but who thought they would be a match for Bayern Munich?
Real Madrid on the other hand.. have won 9 Champions Leagues, 31 La Liga championships (Not an easy task) numerous other trophies including the UEFA cup and today they went down similar to how a team from the bottom half of the EPL goes down against a big club. The only difference between Real Madrid and a relegation-threatened team from the EPL is that RM wend down without hope, fight, heart or pride. That's a shame.
ok, did anyone really think Madrid had a shot against Liverpool in either leg? this madrid incarnation is a shell of the nine-time european champion Madrid everyone seems to be stuck on. what must Rafa do to show it's in Europe with which his greatest fancies lie besides concede the English title year after year in favor of Champions League Nights at Anfield. That team Benitez put out there was his best eleven (save maybe Riera for Babel), bar none.
And didn't a nationally prominent regional side from Portugal win this very tournament just five years ago?
The match turned on a unbelievable bad decision by the ref to award a penalty which essentially had Real needed 3 goals. It wasn't that Real were any good in the period up to that penalty but as long as there was a way, will might have been found.
After the penalty, there was nothing left to do but collapse in a heap as Liverpool brilliantly locked up the midfield in their half and broke like a blitzkrieg on the counter.
A. — The penalty was part of it, absolutely. It wasn't just Liverpool's skill that came down on Madrid, it was everything, from the crowd to the officials to the basic functioning of gravity. (Tell me that wild dipping shot from Mascherano that forced one of Casillas's best saves of the match in the first half would have gone anywhere close to the goal on a normal night.)
j — Really, you think Liverpool-Madrid was in the same category of mismatch as Bayern-Sporting? Even considering that Madrid are the defending champions of Spain, are the richest club in the world, have won 10 of their last 11 games, have conceded three goals in their last 11 games, and have been making up ground on Barcelona like they'd brought the power of the tesseract to the league table?
And I don't want to be hard on Sporting, but just about the only things they have in common with the Mourinho-era Porto is that they both play in Portugal and they both had one Russian substitute in their last Champions League game. Sporting isn't even doing that well in Portugal this season.
Agreed Brian though I have to say the crowd at the Olimpico in Turin sounded more threatening than the one at Anfield on the night. The Anfield wasn't the most boisterous I have heard from there, so much as I can tell from the TV transmission.
This is football. Even when teams are severely over-matched, they rarely lose by more than two goals, and certainly don't give up five and seven goals in two straight matches. Even if Chelsea played … oh … Pro Vercelli, that would not happen.
Again, I'm not saying that what Bayern did wasn't a big deal. It was a big deal in the same way that Liverpool's 8-0 win over Beşiktaş last year was a big deal, or (arguably) Man Utd's 7-1 win over Roma. It just wasn't Book of Revelations big.
12-1 is extremely impressive. But five years from now when we look back on this Champions League, I think we're going to remember what happened to Real Madrid a lot more vividly.
i'm not trying to compare the two at all; they're isolated in in just about every way two CL draws could be. however, i also know what a funny phenomenon form is, even in my limited time with the game, and that it will try and disperse with even more aplomb than it arrived with. the first game at the bernabeu was more the shocker, i think, than these faux galacticos going to Anfield and getting rightfully reamed, which isn't to say i expected this William Blake painting. From a Liverpudlian standpoint, that's absolutely what it was, but the 09 Madrid is more akin to something from Francis Bacon's brush, equal parts beautiful (not tuesday), dissonant, and chaotic.
i suppose i had meant to, in the words of Finley Peter Dunne, afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted, though it seems i may have my stars misaligned. hence, a defense of sporting.
The problem with Madrid, obviously, is that they don't know their limitations and therefore don't have the right game plan nor do they seem to understand their opponent's game. They only know one way to play.
Liverpool and Benitez understand better than most their capabilities and the capabilities of their opponents, and play accordingly in Europe.
Look at how the first goal came. A long hopeful hoick/clearance from deep inside Liverpool territory which found centre backs out of position and stretched. If your not good enough to beat them like that, as you proved in the first game, why not do a Liverpool and shore-up and hit on the counter?
p.s. Brian, I don't know about the Man Utd v Roma match. Utd were taking a deficit into the second leg having been summarily outplayed in the first. The resulting scoreline was out of the blue for mine.
I am a Cule, but today I sing YNWA.
I hadn't heard, but this is a monumental result. More fuel for the "Rafa equals Champions League titles" bonfire.
More fuel for the anti-Premier League crusaders at UEFA, too. This match was basically Michel Platini's worst nightmare.
At least Casillas won EURO 2008. And if this was the wrath of God, what was Bayern Munich v. Sporting Lisbon?
I was going to ask the same thing Dave. 12 goals in two legs is nothing to sneeze at …
No. No way. Bayern-Sporting was a generic mismatch, a case of a storied club from a major league playing a nationally prominent regional side that was never going to be competitive.
Liverpool-Madrid was a matchup of two of the most successful clubs in the history of the world. And one of those clubs came down like the flame of the almighty while the other one wore sackcloth and wailed. This was a William Blake painting. Don't try to make into a run-of-the-mill blowout.
Though I'm not saying that what Bayern did wasn't really impressive, just to be clear.
There is a huge difference between this game and the Bayern game. Sporting is a decent team, above average, but who thought they would be a match for Bayern Munich?
Real Madrid on the other hand.. have won 9 Champions Leagues, 31 La Liga championships (Not an easy task) numerous other trophies including the UEFA cup and today they went down similar to how a team from the bottom half of the EPL goes down against a big club. The only difference between Real Madrid and a relegation-threatened team from the EPL is that RM wend down without hope, fight, heart or pride. That's a shame.
Like a one-armed lady of the night…
ok, did anyone really think Madrid had a shot against Liverpool in either leg? this madrid incarnation is a shell of the nine-time european champion Madrid everyone seems to be stuck on. what must Rafa do to show it's in Europe with which his greatest fancies lie besides concede the English title year after year in favor of Champions League Nights at Anfield. That team Benitez put out there was his best eleven (save maybe Riera for Babel), bar none.
And didn't a nationally prominent regional side from Portugal win this very tournament just five years ago?
Everything just went the right way for Liverpool. A REAL shocker!
The match turned on a unbelievable bad decision by the ref to award a penalty which essentially had Real needed 3 goals. It wasn't that Real were any good in the period up to that penalty but as long as there was a way, will might have been found.
After the penalty, there was nothing left to do but collapse in a heap as Liverpool brilliantly locked up the midfield in their half and broke like a blitzkrieg on the counter.
A. — The penalty was part of it, absolutely. It wasn't just Liverpool's skill that came down on Madrid, it was everything, from the crowd to the officials to the basic functioning of gravity. (Tell me that wild dipping shot from Mascherano that forced one of Casillas's best saves of the match in the first half would have gone anywhere close to the goal on a normal night.)
j — Really, you think Liverpool-Madrid was in the same category of mismatch as Bayern-Sporting? Even considering that Madrid are the defending champions of Spain, are the richest club in the world, have won 10 of their last 11 games, have conceded three goals in their last 11 games, and have been making up ground on Barcelona like they'd brought the power of the tesseract to the league table?
And I don't want to be hard on Sporting, but just about the only things they have in common with the Mourinho-era Porto is that they both play in Portugal and they both had one Russian substitute in their last Champions League game. Sporting isn't even doing that well in Portugal this season.
Agreed Brian though I have to say the crowd at the Olimpico in Turin sounded more threatening than the one at Anfield on the night. The Anfield wasn't the most boisterous I have heard from there, so much as I can tell from the TV transmission.
That's true, A. The atmosphere got cozy fairly quickly. Actually, that probably showed more contempt for Madrid than bloodthirsty chanting would have.
This is football. Even when teams are severely over-matched, they rarely lose by more than two goals, and certainly don't give up five and seven goals in two straight matches. Even if Chelsea played … oh … Pro Vercelli, that would not happen.
Again, I'm not saying that what Bayern did wasn't a big deal. It was a big deal in the same way that Liverpool's 8-0 win over Beşiktaş last year was a big deal, or (arguably) Man Utd's 7-1 win over Roma. It just wasn't Book of Revelations big.
12-1 is extremely impressive. But five years from now when we look back on this Champions League, I think we're going to remember what happened to Real Madrid a lot more vividly.
i'm not trying to compare the two at all; they're isolated in in just about every way two CL draws could be. however, i also know what a funny phenomenon form is, even in my limited time with the game, and that it will try and disperse with even more aplomb than it arrived with. the first game at the bernabeu was more the shocker, i think, than these faux galacticos going to Anfield and getting rightfully reamed, which isn't to say i expected this William Blake painting. From a Liverpudlian standpoint, that's absolutely what it was, but the 09 Madrid is more akin to something from Francis Bacon's brush, equal parts beautiful (not tuesday), dissonant, and chaotic.
i suppose i had meant to, in the words of Finley Peter Dunne, afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted, though it seems i may have my stars misaligned. hence, a defense of sporting.
The problem with Madrid, obviously, is that they don't know their limitations and therefore don't have the right game plan nor do they seem to understand their opponent's game. They only know one way to play.
Liverpool and Benitez understand better than most their capabilities and the capabilities of their opponents, and play accordingly in Europe.
Look at how the first goal came. A long hopeful hoick/clearance from deep inside Liverpool territory which found centre backs out of position and stretched. If your not good enough to beat them like that, as you proved in the first game, why not do a Liverpool and shore-up and hit on the counter?
p.s. Brian, I don't know about the Man Utd v Roma match. Utd were taking a deficit into the second leg having been summarily outplayed in the first. The resulting scoreline was out of the blue for mine.
Yeah, that's why I said "arguably." That was a really astonishing game.